I was Seventeen years old when my ears were introduced to the sounds of the Lemonheads. It was my senior year at Wayne Valley and my last days of my short but storied time in Wayne New Jersey. On this particular Spring day I was riding around aimlessly with my buddy Gil Hoffman. As we turned the corner Gil ejected my mix of current NYHC all stars and slipped in a copy of The Lemonheads “Hate your Friends.” It didn’t resonate with me at the time but upon looking back it really makes me think.

If it weren’t for that day, my buddy Gil and the Lemonheads... I may have never fallen in love with bands like Superchunk, Sebadoh, Sugar, Dinosaur JR. and so many more. Years later, more than I care to admit, I got to meet Ben Daily when his current band Varsity Drag played at Maxwells. The bands set and my conversations with Ben and Lisa led me to stay in touch and eventually set up an interview. Thanks to Ben for taking the time to answer my questions with such honesty and thought. I hope they grace the stage of Maxwells or anywhere in TriState area again soon.

James: The night I saw Varsity Drag at Maxwells I honestly didn't know you and Lisa were married. I remember telling her how your onstage chemistry was magic. My favorite images from that night are where she's smiling and kind of leaning towards you lovingly. What's it like for you to be in a band with your better half? 

Honestly, though, it’s awesome to be able to share music with someone you’re connected to in ways other than just “hey, random stranger, let’s be in a band.” I’ve played music with my brother a lot over the decades, as there’s something similar at work there, too: an enhanced ability to communicate wordlessly, because you’re connected to someone on levels beyond just musical.

James: I would imagine it's a lot different being in a band with your wife Lisa than it was being in the Lemonheads with Evan.  Differences?

Ben: Well, [cough], besides my being a good 20-years-plus more ancient—that alone making more of a difference than any other factor—yeah, different for sure. The whole dynamic of an outfit comprised of late teen/early 20-something boys experiencing the first blush of being in a “real” band, versus a couple in their early 40s playing a handful of shows a year, is definitely palpable.

And yet, in all the important ways, it’s less different that you might imagine. The core experience and process of sharing and creating the music doesn’t really change. Bear in mind, Evan and I lived together during most of the time we were doing the TAANG!-era Lemonheads—so there was much the same kind of day-in, day-out intimacy of life both inside and outside of “the band”…a constant companion is a constant companion, be they a best pal or a spouse. Throw music in the mix, and—at least for me—there’s been a distinct and similar way in which the relationship accommodates it.

And really, if you ask me, in music-making the relationships are always primary. (That’s why bands generally have a built-in half-life. I never understood it until I was in a band with a bunch of distinctive individuals, and saw for myself how the dynamics play out…and I suddenly was less angry at all the bands I’d been furious at for “letting me down” by breaking up, LOL.)

Ben: On the last album she was definitely instrumental in helping me make decisions about how stuff was going to take shape—and I have the feeling that going forward, in writing stuff, I’m going to be taking advantage as much as I can of her perspective…especially the fact that she has a fresher point of view than mine. What the zen folks call “beginner’s mind.” She’s also been sometimes working on her own stuff, which I hope she’ll be willing to share in time.

James: What made you decide to go back to music after so long?

Ben: Well, the initial Varsity Drag boot-up in SF was definitely primarily driven by some wonderful folks—Greg and Will—who were fans, had their own band, and wanted to play music together. That was great. It kinda lit a fire under me to start writing again. And more than anything, I guess it made me realize something I never had during the years I did Lemonheads: that playing live can actually be tons of fun. I mean, as anyone could tell you, I used to be so young, so dour, and so serious…it just took a few years—and perhaps a few beers—to reach the point where both writing and performing could be a release, and a joy, rather than an ordeal of sorts. Live and learn.

James: You went from writing songs with your drug buddy (forgive my being so forward) in the Lemonheads to going to Harvard where you went on to excel and graduated Cum Lade. Did you always know where your path would take you?

Ben: Well, remember, there was a fair amount of crossover between all of those elements—my buddy and I were both writing songs, and playing shows, and (sure) taking drugs, and I was trying to keep a decent GPA over at them hallowed halls in the Yard. Unsustainable stuff.

Between my academic aspirations (which were deeply heartfelt, for better or worse…studying literature at Harvard was a dream come true for me), and my devotion to my fiancé at the time who—along with my family—was, you guessed it, decidedly not a fan of my playing music and hanging with Dando…it just couldn’t go on.

To be sure, I already knew I had no intention—had never even entertained the desire—of trying to play music for a living. Hah! But eventually it reached a point where my involvement with the band was directly running afoul of very specific things. An east coast mini tour with Bullet LaVolta fucked up an exam study period, and I was stressed and pissed. Our first European tour was going to interfere directly with a Yeats symposium in Sligo that I had gone to great lengths to be able to attend. So when the plane tickets were being bought for that tour, I finally said, that’s it—I can’t do it. Count me out.

James: What was the transition like for you?

Ben: Rather sudden, and a little weird. Obviously I missed my pal. But getting what you really want means making choices. Like the old saw goes, you can have anything you want, but you can’t have everything you want. Not all at the same time.

James: With your education and experiences along the way, do you think more bands should get an education to learn more about the business and economics end of not only running a band but giving themselves a chance to survive economically?

Ben: I really dunno. Almost everyone I know who was attempting a life as a working musician in the 90s—and more to the point, who aspired to make a living as a working musician—has found something else to do to make ends meet. They’re lawyers, editors, writers, designers. But the funny part is, I think that’s what most artists start out expecting, isn’t it? I guess the 70s and 80s gave musicians the idea that they’re some kind of special case. (Well…apparently they ain’t. Art—be it musical or otherwise—is wonderful for the heart and the soul, and it traditionally pays diddly. Even if you call it “entertainment” it’s generally a piss-poor way to make a living, I’m told. Ask any struggling actor or comedian or songwriter or comic-book artist.)

Bear in mind, my schooling was purely done out of love: you don’t get a degree in English and American literature with a focus on 20th century lyric poetry so you can be saleable to the business world. It’s a combination of dumb luck and good timing that I’ve been lucky enough to spend the last 17 years doing what I love, namely advertising. On the other hand, to some degree, everything I’ve ever done, experienced or studied—from poetry, to being in a band on the road, to the drawings and painting I made in grade school, to making up stories and talking in funny voices with my friends—has formed the preparation for doing my job: it includes all of that stuff and more, and everything has proven to be relevant. That’s what makes advertising a uniquely appealing way to make a living. Well, that and the constant on-the-job drinking.

James: With the Lemonheads and even when Varsity Drag came on the scene, releasing an actual record was so important. How have you adapted to the digital age changes in the way music is being made?

Ben: Not particularly, in terms of the smart adaptations.  I mean, I’ve been making my music available for free or cheap online ever since the late 90s, so I’ve always embraced that part. On the other hand, the supposedly strategic adaptations—let’s say, focusing on “singles” because no one listens to albums any more, or being sure to have a video on youtube for everything you do, or writing the kind of songs that someone wants in an iPod commercial (i.e., hipster-y, inoffensive, lyrics to the back)—yeah, that’s never happened. All the records I’ve ever made have been imagined as “records,” with a side one and side two (albeit imaginary), and a painstakingly—sometimes agonizingly—worked-out song order and structure. Meant to be listened to from front to back. Engh, I say, whatever. Folks will do it, or they won’t.  Not for me to decide.

James: Being the avid reader that you are, have you embraced the way books and media are being produced and processed? Do you own a Kindle or a Nook yet?

Ben: Nah. Even though my parents worked in high tech ever since the early 70s—so, for instance, they were sending email in the 80s, and we’ve always have a home computer in the house since the TRS-80—I’ve never been much for gadgets. I don’t even have a smart phone. (Hell, I didn’t even have a phone with a camera until Josh Pickering got his first iPhone, and gave me his “EnV” phone as a hand-me-down.)

Not that I have anything against the digital reading mode. A friend of mine said something funny the other day, though: she said her Kindle has made it so that she can no longer stand the weight of holding a physical book! “GAH, it’s so heavy!” Morlocks and Eloi, here we come.

Ben: Oh, that was just one in an extended series of self-mocking Onion-style articles I wrote for my site back when I was bored a few years ago. You can see the lot at: http://www.bendeily.com/id21.html

It was kinda like a randomly/sporadically updated blog…I’d write in it whenever a funny picture or news event or experience seemed to make it worthwhile. Eventually I got tired of it, but it was fun while it lasted.

James: What do you like to read? Favorite books/authors? That book you've read countless times?

Ben: Well, I guess, mostly poetry. Old and new stuff. The cannon-in-your-hand special The Norton Anthology of Poetry has always been a dog-eared standby, trite as it might sound. I had lost my copy in a chaotic move around 2002 or so, and Evan gave me his copy when we hung out in Los Angeles in 2004—isn’t that awesome of him? (I still have it, obviously…hanging on to this one.)

Shakespeare. No, really. I guess I’m a freakin’ fossil, but I find it endlessly rewarding. And Milton. Of the tried ‘n’ true Romantics, Keats (and Blake, somewhat)…and Victorians like Tennyson rule. Fin de siècle guys like Hardy (I’ve never read his novels, but love the poems—funny, huh?). All the great 20th century modernists, Pound/Eliot/etc., and the 50s guys…Williams Carlos Williams…I love the so-called “confessional” poets. Wrote my “thesis,” such as it was, on Berryman’s Dream Songs.

For my money, folks like Lowell—and, oh my God, Plath!—are as amazing as anything from the last century. Snobs can get bent. (Speaking of which, Robert Bly is awesome—screw anyone who says otherwise.)

Put a gun to my head, Philip Larkin’s “The Less Deceived” is probably what I would take with me to the desert island from the 20th century. That’s just me.

Oh, there’s a wondering and amazing contemporary American poet I’d recommend, Joseph Lease (http://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Lease/e/B001JRUX5U/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1 )—he’s got a brand new book called Testify.

What else? Tove Jansson’s “Moomin” books—they’re supposedly for children, but I haven’t stopped reading and re-reading them for the last 20 years. Raymond Carver. Robert Olmstead is a contemporary American fiction writer I like a lot. Oh, and I like to go back to the overwrought/eugenicist/purple prose guilty pleasure of Lovecraft pretty regularly. Eldritch! Unspeakable! Non-Euclidian!

I have a crack at the bible (faves: Ecclesiastes, Job, Psalms) and even the Quran once in a while—after all, ya can’t understand human culture without understanding the texts behind it, right? But other than that, I’m not a big fiction guy. [Rim shot.] I pretty much read every word in the New Yorker every issue—it’s my subway vice—which exposes me to some contemporary fiction, but I ain’t a big buying-new-hardcover-books person, alas. Have you seen those things? They’re freakin’ HUGE. Hopeless. Way too lazy. I’d rather watch Futurama on Netflicks.

Also spend a lot of time on re-reading the Zen cannon of stories and koans, like the Mumonkan (The Gateless Barrier) and the Blue Cliff Record—that one’s a bit thicker going for me, but hey—and “zen” influenced poetry, like Ryôkan. He’s beyond amazing. You can eat and drink his poems.

Can’t really think of anything else at the moment.

James: Evan Dando stops by your place unannounced. What does he request when he gets thirsty?

Ben: Well, it all depends. Last time, we had greyhounds, and then Miller High Life in cans.

James: Does he have a long history of hijacking your bandwith?

Ben: Well, here’s the deal: it’s my aspiration that, when I’m with someone, I try to give them my full attention. So when Dando—or anyone else—is visiting, I drop everything else for a spell. It’s the same with all to my pals. Even with my dog. At least, dang it, I try. Anyhoo, hence the diminution in my attention when we had that exchange about bandwidth…

Reminds me of a funny zen story, something along these lines: guy asks a zen master, “what is the sum of the teaching?” The master writes on a sheet of paper, “Attention.” Guy asks, “Umm…could you elaborate on that a little?” Master writes: “Attention! Attention! Attention!”

[“Goddamnit, back to zen again?

Really, Deily? REALLY?”

“I swear, it just happened this way, honest.”

Ergh, now I gotta go wash my mouth out with something refreshing.]

Thanks for doing this interview with me, man! I’m out! [drops mic.]

Interview and pictures by James Damion

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